I need to be honest, Open Classifieds is in a huge problem.
We have many downloads, load of work to do, support to offer to you and others and that’s not possible since we don’t get any benefit from the software.
I started this just as an small script and I decided to release it under GPL, I never expected to grow this much.
The problem is that I’m spending many hours in this project and I can’t. I need money to make a living like anyone else. Donations and services are not enough, currently we work on this 3 persons, being me the one who spends the most time in this.
So I don’t want to have 2 different software (1 GPL and other with extra stuff private), I really believe in Open Source and I think that from the services should be enough, but is not.
For me the solution seems to be offering a professional edition that’s not more than few services wrapped in a better price.
Open Classifieds Professional Edition
- Software installation
- 1 year Premium support (direct support from email)
Promotion 40€
This is the last chance to make Open Classifieds work as a business, if doesn’t succeed I will need to stop working as I am doing right now. Is sad but is just like this, I will stop the support and the development for next releases and I will just fix bugs. Hope is not like this, I’m just being realistic :(
[jetpack_subscription_form]
Chema
This is not good news at all. Having just found OC and being happy to support you via 1. Donation and 2. Assist on the forums to then now read this?
The above does not give much detail though and I’d like some confirmation on a few points if I may.
1. Are you stopping the availability of 1.7?
2. Are you stopping any further development on an Open Source version?
3. Will future versions be all non open source?
4. I suggested and offered more help on the forums. do you no longer want that?
This is a real shame that you are going down this path when it was once a very promising solution that I feel will now wither up and die.
Maybe a fork will need to begin?
Cheers
GW
I think you are mis understanding me.
I think I made my self pretty clear that I don’t want to have 2 different versions of software.
1- NO, I tihnk you can still donwloading the software, no? I’m just offering a PRO version with services.
2- NO, I will stop making new features and just fixing bugs if I can’t make a living. I need money to buy food as you can understand.
3- As I said before this is an Open Source project everything that is already release is going to be always GPL, period.
4- Of course we need help in the forums, I’m going to reduce my collaboration in the forums, nowadays I check it everyday more than 1 hour, I’m going to change this to do it every 2 days. I need time to do other work that really allows me to make a living.
We are currently planning the 1.7.1 version, so I tihnk we are pretty alive.
You are free to start a fork, the project is open source. If you can afford the time to do it and you don’t like how I manage the project you feel free to do it of course.
I try to make happy everybody but I forgot that I need to be happy as well, and currently I’m not doing a normal life, I work for free as a hobbie to develop Open Source but now seems more to be an obligation, and that I don’t like it.
Hope now I made my self more clear.
Regards
Yes I think I am misunderstanding, and by that I mean misunderstanding your english transalation I think. What you have written makes little sense then in the blog post.
If I may dissect;
‘I need to be honest, Open Classifieds is in a huge problem.’
Ok what is the problem?
‘We have many downloads’
Great that is what you want is it not? Otherwise why release it?
‘load of work to do’
I am sure it does require some work but ‘loads’??? Why? Have you thought of sharing the load?
‘support to offer to you and others and that’s not possible since we don’t get any benefit from the software’
Hang on support to you and others. You meaning those people that download the software that you have released that then ask question son how to use it or fix something that is not working for them? Is this the ‘loads of work’?
If so again share the load. Rebuild the site and forums as I said and structure them better. Then enlist others happy to offer their time (freely) to help you support your solution, that is what makes the open source community so good.
If support is not possible then you have three choices, one cease releasing the solution, two enlist others to help support you and the project as a whole and/or three have a subscription support ticket system, where a person can buy support for a month, 3 months, six months or even a year. Then that is your only place to offer support officially. You can still have a ‘community based’ support forum that is support from other users but not from the dev’s as that support is via ticket system only.
‘I started this just as an small script and I decided to release it under GPL, I never expected to grow this much.’
Must be nice for you to think many others like your work and what you have provided. This is always a challenge for GPL work, however for it to survive you have to enlist support from others otherwise it will get too big for you to manage – which is what it is now.
‘The problem is that I’m spending many hours in this project and I can’t’
Then don’t. No one is holding you to a time table, you are doing that to yourself. Spend as much or as little time as you want on the project that is totally up to you. Simply make it clear to everyone it is a VERY part time role you have doing the project OR enlist help from other developers.
‘I need money to make a living like anyone else’
As we all do, do you have another job or is this it? If this is it then it should never have been released as GPL, but then it may never have got this much attention and users. Again you spend time on this only when you can, no one is forcing you to a time table.
‘Donations and services are not enough’
Sadly donations never are. Your lucky to get 1 in 250 to donate as most people prefer to sponge than pay. Services? What do you mean by that? You should never have relied on donations to keep the project going. What you should have done is had payment options higher for removal of credits (you will recall I contributed the full and not the promotional amount) plus also the support subscription system.
‘currently we work on this 3 persons, being me the one who spends the most time in this’
Ok so it sounds like its all you by that, what are the other two doing? Why only 3? Why not enlist others? Especially if the other 2 are not contributing.
‘So I don’t want to have 2 different software (1 GPL and other with extra stuff private)’
Good, it is a bugger to try and manage two separate versions, I have been there myself once before.
‘I really believe in Open Source and I think that from the services should be enough, but is not’
Good, but its not? not what? Are you saying that open source is not working so no longer open source as that is how that sentence came across. In your reply above your sort of tried to retract that but still no definite answer (in a way that is clearly understood)
‘For me the solution seems to be offering a professional edition that’s not more than few services wrapped in a better price’
Ok this is where it gets confusing and why I assumed the worst but your reply to my initial comment kind of reverses what you say here. Let me break it up to try and understand you…
‘So seems to be offering a professional version’
So that means what, that there will only be a professional version? That is how it comes across.
‘that’s not more than few services wrapped in a better price’
Aha, ok so what does that mean, as in better price as in better than free open source? Services you mean installation and support? What if I don;t need them do I get the pro version or is there a non pro version and what is the difference?
Can you see the confusion and why I responded as I did in the first comment?
GW
Hi GW,
I’m sorry I’m not native.
But hundreds of persons read this and nobody complained so far and I tihnk is pretty clear.
That you don’t like it up to you.
You don’t need to read all my words and check the meaning of them, you want me to do the same? is the whole text meaning not single phrase.
You don’t read the forum? how many times I asked for help? where is the documentation for 1.7.?
There are 3 developers and are well credited: http://open-classifieds.com/
Also what are the services, you need just to read a bit before: http://open-classifieds.com/services/
So far not that much money from it.
I have my work as a freelance consultant and I spend hours from my work to help people. Isn’t that good enough?
You think that to just say the changes that are need to be done is enough also? how implements them? the community? I see that….
Loads of work:
Development
Management
Writting in 2 languages for the site
Marketing
Translations
Support
I think a person could be full time working easily here.
Your confussion once more my friend….was just you who got confused and not other people, see my blog, twitter or this same forum….
I’m not spending any more time in this discussion, if you want we skype it, you have my email.
Regards
Hang on, All I did was illustrate my confusion on the matter and why I was ‘misunderstood’. Nothing more.
I have been supportive of you and the project as you will have seen in the forums. I was just seeking clarification on the Pro vs not pro information.
While I might be the only one writing comments I am very sure others are benefiting from my comments to get a better understanding – that is all it was/is about.
GW
As I told you I’ve got feedback in the blog neo22s.com my twitter @deambulando and the forum, you can check there if you want to.
I hope every miss understanding is more clear.
Regards
Hola, me gusta tu trabajo y estoy dispuesto a pagara los 40 EUROS pero soy de Chile y no manejo paypal ni visa ni nada de eso.
Alguna otra forma de de deposito.
saludos…
Atte Gonzalo Varas
Chile
Transferencia bancaria?
Mandame un correo usando el formulario de contacto.
saludos
Why don’t you share the Adsense earnings from users ?
Make an addon to install Adsense on OC, every user must authorize you to share their earnings!
Except me of course, I give the solution :-)
arithmetic
23 000 downloads
10 000 active sites
5 000 sites with adsense
each sites earns $0.10 per day with 10% for you
________
= $50 per day
=$1,500 per month
enough to buy food ?
I already tried that, but google contacted me saying that was not allowed to do it…because of that I removed it :(
And now I try to sell links, but not many buy them, just 4 so far…20€ xD
regards
Dear all:
I fully agree with gwmbox. The basic matter is to have in mind all the time about the real world and the way it works. Open Source and free software most of the time come in different flavors … Just take a look at Linux, MySQL and others. A lot free, a lot paid, free community support, paid support and even expensive in some cases. That’s how all works, and that means health to everybody. The one that makes the effort to install and to check and research by him / herself and the others that prefer to paid and to get an immediate response or service.
I understand the author could be in a hard personal situation, but Chema has to call the calm to plan about his market, instead of just stopping his mind in the idea of GLP for everything or just die.
What city / country are your from Chema ?
My best regards,
Nelson
Who said about stopping the gpl for the pro? I think you miss understood me as well.
Please see my suggestion here: http://bit.ly/age5Xa
Cheers GW
??? I did mention “GPL for everything” talking about the wide spectrum of options to provide to people served by this software and related services.
Sorry to find just a negative position from your side.
regards,
Nelson
Chema,
Enjoy your break.
Robc
A W E S O M E job m8!
Chema, you made good script which should be considered as good starting point for the users. I find this thread bit confusing as per the topic you put. I agree with gwmbox and I am pretty sure you did not get him right.
Please allow me to share few things with you. I am currently using your 1.6.4 version and I had fix/modify many things as it required. I was going have such application and you made that easier. I thank you for that.
I am sure you want to make money. GPL helps people make money but you will have to design the way for it to bring money for you. And of course you are not forced to make free stuff for people like us. I am guessing you do not have GPL and it’s business. Let me tell you what I noticed.
“I need to be honest, Open Classifieds is in a huge problem.”
>> You do not say anything negative about your own application but help people which makes your application richer and I know you do via forum.
“We have many downloads, load of work to do, support to offer to you and others and that’s not possible since we don’t get any benefit from the software.” >>
This be under donation to explain why our contribution would help this project but remember people will be able to make money out of it else they should not have any point to donate.
“I started this just as an small script and I decided to release it under GPL, I never expected to grow this much.” >>
You don’t say this, we would know for sure if it is a good project that helps people like us.
“The problem is that I’m spending many hours in this project and I can’t. I need money to make a living like anyone else. Donations and services are not enough, currently we work on this 3 persons, being me the one who spends the most time in this.”
>> This should not be mentioned since it sounds like some personal statement. This should be under donation as well. You are free to get more people involved for this project.
“So I don’t want to have 2 different software (1 GPL and other with extra stuff private), I really believe in Open Source and I think that from the services should be enough, but is not.”
>> It is up to you what do you want to do with it since you are in control.
“This is the last chance to make Open Classifieds work as a business, if doesn’t succeed I will need to stop working as I am doing right now. Is sad but is just like this, I will stop the support and the development for next releases and I will just fix bugs. Hope is not like this, I’m just being realistic :(”
>> Again it does not sound a professional approach. It also sound like you are threatening the users :)
WHAT YOU COULD DO:
1. Come up with the support/subscription package in a proper way and explain the difference between the community support and the subscription based support. Your highlights should be clear enough to the people to convince them to understand why would they buy your professional support. People like us (since I am an IT pro) would/might not need support from you but there are tons waiting for it. All you need is a proper approach to those people. If you don’t have time to provide paid support go look for support. If you need us for your support feel free to shoot.
Trust me, there are tons of way to make money on the net, all you need is the right approach.
Thanks
Thanks bigmaster,
I’m making more clear what is the PRO version.
Let’s see what happens with my proposal if not I will need to find another way of course.
Now holidays time ;)
regards
Chema, did you check out my suggestion in the forums, it is along the same lines as bigmaster suggests also.
GW
tes I did.
we actually have something like that in the services page. I will create as you say support for 1 month / 3 months / 6 month / 1 year
Then if the PRO support does’t work I will erase it, no problem
regards
Chema
I don’t think you are understanding what we are trying to get across.
The concept of the ‘Professional Version’ is the main issue at topic here. I would recommend NOT having a ‘Professional Version’ unless you are going to have two versions, as in a full version with all features that is supported versus a less featured free version with no support.
Though from what you have said you DO NOT want TWO versions, which is great and easier for you to maintain. But labelling the solution as a ‘Professional Version’ does give that impression and is what is causing the confusion.
I recommend that you drop the ‘Professional Version’ label. Then have two support options, that being;
1st.
No Cost: Free limited user to user support only via the OC forums, no support ticket system and no detailed documentation other than basic how to install.
2nd.
6 Month or Annual subscription (don’t do 1 month or 3 months) to access all sections of the OC forums and INCLUDES ticketed support that is given priority and also INCLUDES full documentation on how best to utilise OC. You can also offer as an extra small fee for an installation service.
So in the end you end up with ‘Open Classifieds v1.7.x’ and that is it, no pro version, no free version just OC 1.7.x
If you need more than user to user support then pay for a subscription, if you need detailed documentation then pay for a subscription…. if you want to show your support for OC then pay for a subscription.
Is that clearer?
Oh and another suggestion for those that ‘want’ to ‘sell’ mods and/or themes maybe have a section that enables that with a minimum of 25% of all sales going to OC to assist in its continued development of the mods and themes as well as OC itself.
I guess I kind of look at these from the point of view of what works well elsewhere. Joomla and the Community Builder projects are good examples. Joomla has a directory for add-ons etc where developers of add-ons can advertise their add-ons etc. Community Builder has a subscription system that works well (I have been a subscribing member for 3 years myself, and only once have I needed the documentation etc, I just choose to support it)
GW
Now I need to wait a bit like this. Since is done…
When I come for vacations I will review all of your ideas.
About the mods, there’s the Mod’s forum for it, is not enough, no? I will check that later as well.
Thanks guys.
Maybe you could provide a professional version for a small cost that has the option of a small service fee. The professional version could include features such as the ability for paid adverts.
I think your script is great, I just wish it had the ability and security for paid adverts.
thanks to all of you for your comments now I’m iun holidays, I will review it afterwards.
regards
Thanks Chema for your hard work – without any payment…